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	<title>Comments on: Are the Tectonic Plates of British Politics Shifting?</title>
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	<link>http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/rants/are-the-techtonic-plates-of-british-politics-shifting/</link>
	<description>The blogs of Tim Hall</description>
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		<title>By: Synthetase</title>
		<link>http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/rants/are-the-techtonic-plates-of-british-politics-shifting/comment-page-1/#comment-78829</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Synthetase]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2016 15:00:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/?p=16111#comment-78829</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;&quot;If the second house becomes partisan, whether due to appointment of the members by the majority Commons party, or due to elected members drawn from the same pool of party politicans that fill the Commons, it becomes pointless. You might as well abolish the second house entirely if youâ€™re just going to elect it in the same way you elect the first house, and save yourself the expense and effort.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

The House of Lords is hardly non-partisan, though. Just because they may not officially belong to any particular party doesn&#039;t mean they don&#039;t hold political views and that those views won&#039;t influence their decision-making. Given the fact they are lords, there&#039;s an obvious selection bias in favour of certain political view-points.

I very much agree with the latter point, though. This is why the Australian Senate was created as a representative chamber of the states (mostly former colonies) that Federated to form the Commonwealth of Australia. Representatives are not elected in the same way as they are in the lower house. It&#039;s kind of a cross between the Westminster system and the American system, with proportional voting thrown in.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;If the second house becomes partisan, whether due to appointment of the members by the majority Commons party, or due to elected members drawn from the same pool of party politicans that fill the Commons, it becomes pointless. You might as well abolish the second house entirely if youâ€™re just going to elect it in the same way you elect the first house, and save yourself the expense and effort.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>The House of Lords is hardly non-partisan, though. Just because they may not officially belong to any particular party doesn&#8217;t mean they don&#8217;t hold political views and that those views won&#8217;t influence their decision-making. Given the fact they are lords, there&#8217;s an obvious selection bias in favour of certain political view-points.</p>
<p>I very much agree with the latter point, though. This is why the Australian Senate was created as a representative chamber of the states (mostly former colonies) that Federated to form the Commonwealth of Australia. Representatives are not elected in the same way as they are in the lower house. It&#8217;s kind of a cross between the Westminster system and the American system, with proportional voting thrown in.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Stock</title>
		<link>http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/rants/are-the-techtonic-plates-of-british-politics-shifting/comment-page-1/#comment-78812</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ian Stock]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2016 12:00:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/?p=16111#comment-78812</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would like to see more emphasis on expertise in the Lords, or whatever it might become. It is good that the hereditary principle is gone but is patronage any better? The problems come with how you define &#039;expert&#039; and who decides who should be put in place.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to see more emphasis on expertise in the Lords, or whatever it might become. It is good that the hereditary principle is gone but is patronage any better? The problems come with how you define &#8216;expert&#8217; and who decides who should be put in place.</p>
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		<title>By: David Meadows</title>
		<link>http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/rants/are-the-techtonic-plates-of-british-politics-shifting/comment-page-1/#comment-78809</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Meadows]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2016 11:11:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/?p=16111#comment-78809</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with Michael&#039;s comment. The notion of an unelected panel of experts providing  &quot;checks and balances&quot; actually makes sense in a democracy. When you&#039;re not keeping one eye on a public who might vote against you in a couple of years, you can say unpopular things that need to be said. 

At its heart, the principle of the Lords isn&#039;t that much different from the principles behind the Supreme Court in the US (and indeed, part of its remit was as the highest court of appeal against unfair legislature, which is why it&#039;s ludicrous that we now have an actual Supreme Court also). The Lords don&#039;t have any powers to make laws, but can fill an important role in making sure that proposed laws are fair and just. 

If the second house becomes partisan, whether due to appointment of the members by the majority Commons party, or due to elected members drawn from the same pool of party politicans that fill the Commons, it  becomes pointless. You might as well abolish the second house entirely if you&#039;re just going to elect it in the same way you elect the first house, and save yourself the expense and effort.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Michael&#8217;s comment. The notion of an unelected panel of experts providing  &#8220;checks and balances&#8221; actually makes sense in a democracy. When you&#8217;re not keeping one eye on a public who might vote against you in a couple of years, you can say unpopular things that need to be said. </p>
<p>At its heart, the principle of the Lords isn&#8217;t that much different from the principles behind the Supreme Court in the US (and indeed, part of its remit was as the highest court of appeal against unfair legislature, which is why it&#8217;s ludicrous that we now have an actual Supreme Court also). The Lords don&#8217;t have any powers to make laws, but can fill an important role in making sure that proposed laws are fair and just. </p>
<p>If the second house becomes partisan, whether due to appointment of the members by the majority Commons party, or due to elected members drawn from the same pool of party politicans that fill the Commons, it  becomes pointless. You might as well abolish the second house entirely if you&#8217;re just going to elect it in the same way you elect the first house, and save yourself the expense and effort.</p>
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		<title>By: Synthetase</title>
		<link>http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/rants/are-the-techtonic-plates-of-british-politics-shifting/comment-page-1/#comment-78796</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Synthetase]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jul 2016 10:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/?p=16111#comment-78796</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;&quot;I donâ€™t really mind how you get experts into the House of Lords, but it must not be an elected house, because if it is elected it will have the same level of authority as the House of Commons and that way lies deadlock.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

That is not necessarily true. Just because the house is elected doesn&#039;t mean is has the same executive powers, it would depend on the constitutional role placed upon the house and the laws governing its operation. The Australian Senate has many of the powers of the lower House of Representatives (in that members can introduce bills, etc, to the parliament) but it cannot form a government because that is not its purpose. 

With respect to deadlock, that can happen, but it needn&#039;t follow that it also block supply (this has happened very rarely in Oz. If the situation is really bad, it can be resolved by dissolving parliament and holding elections).  I would point out that the opposite essentially gives the government of the day a &#039;rubber stamp&#039; to pass whatever legislation it wants.

On the whole, the Australian public distrusts a party with majorities in both houses and rarely bestows this dubious honour. The last time that happened, the government passed quite a lot of very unpopular legislation, were promptly thrown out of office (even the PM lost his seat) and the balance of power in the Senate was returned to minor parties and independents.

In reality, what usually happens is a compromise situation, where the government must negotiate its legislation through the senate.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;I donâ€™t really mind how you get experts into the House of Lords, but it must not be an elected house, because if it is elected it will have the same level of authority as the House of Commons and that way lies deadlock.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>That is not necessarily true. Just because the house is elected doesn&#8217;t mean is has the same executive powers, it would depend on the constitutional role placed upon the house and the laws governing its operation. The Australian Senate has many of the powers of the lower House of Representatives (in that members can introduce bills, etc, to the parliament) but it cannot form a government because that is not its purpose. </p>
<p>With respect to deadlock, that can happen, but it needn&#8217;t follow that it also block supply (this has happened very rarely in Oz. If the situation is really bad, it can be resolved by dissolving parliament and holding elections).  I would point out that the opposite essentially gives the government of the day a &#8216;rubber stamp&#8217; to pass whatever legislation it wants.</p>
<p>On the whole, the Australian public distrusts a party with majorities in both houses and rarely bestows this dubious honour. The last time that happened, the government passed quite a lot of very unpopular legislation, were promptly thrown out of office (even the PM lost his seat) and the balance of power in the Senate was returned to minor parties and independents.</p>
<p>In reality, what usually happens is a compromise situation, where the government must negotiate its legislation through the senate.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/rants/are-the-techtonic-plates-of-british-politics-shifting/comment-page-1/#comment-78794</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jul 2016 00:21:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/?p=16111#comment-78794</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would draw to people&#039;s attention that a great thing about the old way the House of Lords worked involved people only turning up because they knew about the subject under discussion and could make a worthwhile contribution.

The House of Lords was a reviewing chamber which produced high quality work worthy of the respect of the House of Commons. They had little formal power, but if they said something needed fixing it generally got fixed.

The House of Lords now has too many political appointees. They are there for the wrong reason. The so called cross-benchers should be the majority in the Lords and they are not.

I don&#039;t really mind how you get experts into the House of Lords, but it must not be an elected house, because if it is elected it will have the same level of authority as the House of Commons and that way lies deadlock.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would draw to people&#8217;s attention that a great thing about the old way the House of Lords worked involved people only turning up because they knew about the subject under discussion and could make a worthwhile contribution.</p>
<p>The House of Lords was a reviewing chamber which produced high quality work worthy of the respect of the House of Commons. They had little formal power, but if they said something needed fixing it generally got fixed.</p>
<p>The House of Lords now has too many political appointees. They are there for the wrong reason. The so called cross-benchers should be the majority in the Lords and they are not.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t really mind how you get experts into the House of Lords, but it must not be an elected house, because if it is elected it will have the same level of authority as the House of Commons and that way lies deadlock.</p>
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		<title>By: Synthetase</title>
		<link>http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/rants/are-the-techtonic-plates-of-british-politics-shifting/comment-page-1/#comment-78764</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Synthetase]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jul 2016 07:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/?p=16111#comment-78764</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[At the very least, I find it hard to believe the House of Lords is still a thing. The idea of having an unelected house in parliament in this day and age is anathema to me.

In Australia, we have a proportional voting system, with proportional representation in the upper-house Senate only. The lower House of Representatives (== the House of Commons) forms a government in the Westminster tradition, and the Senate represents the interests of the people in each State in the upper house of legislative review.

It&#039;s not a perfect system, but it does allow for people to &#039;protest vote&#039; against the majors and actually achieve something by not &#039;throwing their vote away&#039; on a third party. So-called &#039;micro-parties&#039; can and do win seats in the Senate, and will form a considerable cross-bench for the narrowly re-elected conservative government after our recent election.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the very least, I find it hard to believe the House of Lords is still a thing. The idea of having an unelected house in parliament in this day and age is anathema to me.</p>
<p>In Australia, we have a proportional voting system, with proportional representation in the upper-house Senate only. The lower House of Representatives (== the House of Commons) forms a government in the Westminster tradition, and the Senate represents the interests of the people in each State in the upper house of legislative review.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not a perfect system, but it does allow for people to &#8216;protest vote&#8217; against the majors and actually achieve something by not &#8216;throwing their vote away&#8217; on a third party. So-called &#8216;micro-parties&#8217; can and do win seats in the Senate, and will form a considerable cross-bench for the narrowly re-elected conservative government after our recent election.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Stock</title>
		<link>http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/rants/are-the-techtonic-plates-of-british-politics-shifting/comment-page-1/#comment-78760</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ian Stock]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jul 2016 17:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/?p=16111#comment-78760</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Swiss system seems to work well - lots of devolution so that people feel their local interests are being looked after. Then one chamber representing the cantons roughly according to population and the other (with veto powers) on an equal basis by canton. That way the smallest are not overlooked.

The government is elected from within the chamber and even the president is a fixed-term rotating position. Few egos as a result.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Swiss system seems to work well &#8211; lots of devolution so that people feel their local interests are being looked after. Then one chamber representing the cantons roughly according to population and the other (with veto powers) on an equal basis by canton. That way the smallest are not overlooked.</p>
<p>The government is elected from within the chamber and even the president is a fixed-term rotating position. Few egos as a result.</p>
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		<title>By: John P.</title>
		<link>http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/rants/are-the-techtonic-plates-of-british-politics-shifting/comment-page-1/#comment-78752</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John P.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jul 2016 23:20:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/?p=16111#comment-78752</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ban all political parties and make all politicians stand as independents without any national party machinery. They have to campaign to the local electorate to get there. No toeing the party whip, they can just make/break alliances on any issue.

Or how about selecting MP&#039;s by lottery from the voting population? Like jury service. Couldn&#039;t do worse than the current career politicians I reckon and you&#039;d get a wider cross section of the community. To allow some continuity between parliaments, maybe they can select a proportion of their number to stay on another term.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ban all political parties and make all politicians stand as independents without any national party machinery. They have to campaign to the local electorate to get there. No toeing the party whip, they can just make/break alliances on any issue.</p>
<p>Or how about selecting MP&#8217;s by lottery from the voting population? Like jury service. Couldn&#8217;t do worse than the current career politicians I reckon and you&#8217;d get a wider cross section of the community. To allow some continuity between parliaments, maybe they can select a proportion of their number to stay on another term.</p>
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