Comments on: Support Live Music

By: Tim Hall

Tim Hall — Thu, 29 Oct 2015 23:39:07 +0000

Yep, audience enthusiasm makes a lot of difference. Remember an earlier gig in the much smaller Asylum in Birmingham three years ago only had about 30 people, but we made enough noise for a couple of hundred.

By: Martin Cowgill

Martin Cowgill — Thu, 29 Oct 2015 23:04:04 +0000

Had a chat with one of the members of the band on Sunday, apparently Edinburgh had an even smaller crowd, quite shocking thinking of the numbers involved.

However the view was that the size of the crowd was less important than the response from the audience, a great small venue with just a few people can be far better than a large but quiet and unresponsive crowd, the band feed off the response.

By: Tim Hall

Tim Hall — Sat, 24 Oct 2015 14:05:46 +0000

One data point we do have is Mostly Autumn’s most recent album “Dressed in Voices”. The pre-order two-disk edition was limited to 2000 copies, and they sold out in advance of the release date of the standard single disk edition. Though they’re an established band with a larger fanbase than some of their peers.

By: PaulE

PaulE — Fri, 23 Oct 2015 15:27:09 +0000

Tom – actually one kickstarter met it’s target in a few days and nearly doubled it by the end. All still with a few hundred people. Another artist more recently looked like they might miss their target and the fans reacted by raising their pledge levels. This is what I meant by “enthusiasm”. But it is all down to core fanbases of a few hundred.

Actual record sales are difficult to get hold of, but before the introduction of streaming data, some of these acts were getting into the lower end of the rock chart – or the high end of the independent breakers chart – on release week. Not all sales go into the chart data, either. Another act sold out of their limited special edition (2000 copies) before the general release version went on sale.

By: Tom B

Tom B — Fri, 23 Oct 2015 12:53:13 +0000

Given the sort of figures we’re talking about – a couple of hundred at a gig perhaps and as Tim asserts, a fanbase for the grassroots prog scene that can be measured in the hundreds – I’m wondering what the record sales figures for these bands must be like. I wonder if anyone’s kickstarter hasn’t met its target.

By: Tim Hall

Tim Hall — Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:31:23 +0000

You’re right, the subscription-based streaming model doesn’t work for grassroots music, and only scales for the major labels because they own the rights to so much of so many artists’ back catalogues that it all adds up.

I might be over-pessimistic, but I fear the crowdfunding model might prove to be a bubble that will eventually burst. It hasn’t happened yet, but it’s only a matter of time before somebody’s Kickstarter meets its target but the band implodes before delivering an album, and that might poison the well for other bands. There have certainly been non-music Kickstarters that never delivered and it eventually turned out that the creator just ran off with the money.

Whatever happens, the one thing we need to avoid for both live and recorded music is a zero-sum game when competing bands are trying to cannibalise each others’ fanbases. If we can’t expand the audience beyond the existing hardcore, that’s what we risk happening.

By: PaulE

PaulE — Thu, 22 Oct 2015 08:52:45 +0000

Problems getting people to live shows are just the tip of the iceberg for finances overall. Many core fans are still buying and some have taken to crowdfunding with enthusiasm, but so long as the more casually inclined think streaming is the future then any chance of growth is on thin ice. The financial model of streaming seems designed for one thing only â€“ to save the major labelsâ€™ bacon.

By: Tim Hall

Tim Hall — Wed, 21 Oct 2015 21:40:21 +0000

I’ve said this before, but most if not all of the bands at this level aren’t full time. A few individual members might be full time musicians, juggling mulitple gigs with different bands, but most of them rely on day jobs to pay the bills. Suspect many bands don’t come close to covering their costs, they’re doing it for love of music.

You have to get to the next level up before many people can actually earn a living doing this sort of thing. Fish once did a detailed breakdown of tour costs including band wages, and the break-even point for a gig is around 300 people through the door (and that’s at 20-25 quid a head).

By: Ian almond

Ian almond — Wed, 21 Oct 2015 07:42:13 +0000

Hi Tim,
I accept your knowledge of the metal market and how they can get a decent crowd, however, the youngsters I work with are mainly into r&b and gangster rap etc and the thought of actually paying for music or going to a gig is a completely alien concept.
At the top end of the market Dave Gilmour can still sell out huge venues but that is based on the vast Pink Floyd legacy and events like this will draw a huge crowd from original fans, wives, children and music fans in general due to publicity he can attract.
At the lower levels there is so much competition for people’s leisure time and money, I sadly don’t see future for bands outside of having outside jobs and the band simply provides a bit of cash on the side.
I would love to see some analysis on how these bands survive and generate enough cash to keep going .

By: dean Borgazzi

dean Borgazzi — Tue, 20 Oct 2015 21:19:07 +0000

Yes Tim I was there on Friday to see the band in Birmingham. And with their fifth album release the attendance was heart breaking. I know trying a new venue can be risky , but the effort needs to be made , or we will loose them !!