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	<title>Comments on: Progzilla and their Problematic List</title>
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	<link>http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/music/music-opinion/progzilla-and-their-problematic-list/</link>
	<description>The blogs of Tim Hall</description>
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		<title>By: PaulE</title>
		<link>http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/music/music-opinion/progzilla-and-their-problematic-list/comment-page-1/#comment-70199</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PaulE]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2015 09:00:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/?p=12787#comment-70199</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I suspect a number of fans voted for their favourite band with every song on the list.  I can understand the logic - what if we all vote for different songs and none make the list. But if quite a few think like this, then the result can be clusters of songs by the same artist. This list looks a bit that way.
And it is ironic that a method of trying to make the list more inclusive by avoiding the all or nothing of selecting one song should actually end up as &quot;problematic&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect a number of fans voted for their favourite band with every song on the list.  I can understand the logic &#8211; what if we all vote for different songs and none make the list. But if quite a few think like this, then the result can be clusters of songs by the same artist. This list looks a bit that way.<br />
And it is ironic that a method of trying to make the list more inclusive by avoiding the all or nothing of selecting one song should actually end up as &#8220;problematic&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Rhys</title>
		<link>http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/music/music-opinion/progzilla-and-their-problematic-list/comment-page-1/#comment-70198</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rhys]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2015 08:48:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/?p=12787#comment-70198</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It was five tracks, Tim, and I do not recall for sure whether specifying an order was necessary, but I would suggest probably not. I&#039;m not sure if I could have successfully ranked Shrinking Violet, The Voyager, All of the Above, Neverland and Hedgerow against one another.

I certainly would not be surprised if there was a form of sexism existent within progressive rock communities, and I would most prominently attribute that to the fact that the &#039;traditional&#039; progressive rock fans are middle aged men who grew up with Yes and Genesis in the 70s, and largely reflect the ideas of their generation. Whether that would factor into the votes placed on an online list...well, who knows. 

Either way, though, I think it&#039;s problematic to accuse something or someone of a form of bigotry without first understanding the full facts that concern it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was five tracks, Tim, and I do not recall for sure whether specifying an order was necessary, but I would suggest probably not. I&#8217;m not sure if I could have successfully ranked Shrinking Violet, The Voyager, All of the Above, Neverland and Hedgerow against one another.</p>
<p>I certainly would not be surprised if there was a form of sexism existent within progressive rock communities, and I would most prominently attribute that to the fact that the &#8216;traditional&#8217; progressive rock fans are middle aged men who grew up with Yes and Genesis in the 70s, and largely reflect the ideas of their generation. Whether that would factor into the votes placed on an online list&#8230;well, who knows. </p>
<p>Either way, though, I think it&#8217;s problematic to accuse something or someone of a form of bigotry without first understanding the full facts that concern it.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Hall</title>
		<link>http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/music/music-opinion/progzilla-and-their-problematic-list/comment-page-1/#comment-70190</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Hall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2015 07:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/?p=12787#comment-70190</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As for my accusations of sexism, it certainly &lt;em&gt;looks&lt;/em&gt; sexist from the outside, simply on the basis of who&#039;s in the list multiple times and who&#039;s conspicuous by their absence.

And I was talking to a female fan at a gig last weekend who told me this post said things that needed to be said.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for my accusations of sexism, it certainly <em>looks</em> sexist from the outside, simply on the basis of who&#8217;s in the list multiple times and who&#8217;s conspicuous by their absence.</p>
<p>And I was talking to a female fan at a gig last weekend who told me this post said things that needed to be said.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Hall</title>
		<link>http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/music/music-opinion/progzilla-and-their-problematic-list/comment-page-1/#comment-70187</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Hall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2015 06:39:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/?p=12787#comment-70187</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Out of interest, how many tracks did you vote for?  And did you have to rank you choices is any order?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Out of interest, how many tracks did you vote for?  And did you have to rank you choices is any order?</p>
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		<title>By: Rhys</title>
		<link>http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/music/music-opinion/progzilla-and-their-problematic-list/comment-page-1/#comment-70184</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rhys]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2015 06:24:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/?p=12787#comment-70184</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was pleased to see Shrinking Violet on the list, not least because I voted for it. It does, however, strike me as a little odd that all the tracks I voted for, even the more obscure ones, Shrinking Violet itself and Pendragon&#039;s The Voyager for example, made it onto the list.

I think calling the list sexist for its lack of female-inclusive bands is a bit of stretch. The more problematic aspect of the list is the lack of acknowledgement as to how many people actually voted, and how many votes each track received. It would not have surprised me if I was the only voter for the two tracks listed above.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was pleased to see Shrinking Violet on the list, not least because I voted for it. It does, however, strike me as a little odd that all the tracks I voted for, even the more obscure ones, Shrinking Violet itself and Pendragon&#8217;s The Voyager for example, made it onto the list.</p>
<p>I think calling the list sexist for its lack of female-inclusive bands is a bit of stretch. The more problematic aspect of the list is the lack of acknowledgement as to how many people actually voted, and how many votes each track received. It would not have surprised me if I was the only voter for the two tracks listed above.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Hall</title>
		<link>http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/music/music-opinion/progzilla-and-their-problematic-list/comment-page-1/#comment-70044</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Hall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2015 13:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/?p=12787#comment-70044</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank for responding, Stacy. This has certainly has produced a lot of passionate debate (You should see some of the conversations on Twitter that led to me writing this piece!).

When you&#039;re just starting out, even negative publicity is good publicity, especially when it points out where you can improve.

I don&#039;t know precisely what voting system you used, but it does look as though the favourites of the biggest subset of your voters crowded everything else off the list.  It all depends on what you want to achieve, but a more &quot;proportional&quot; system might have produced a more diverse list. You&#039;d still have had the same popular acts at the top, but the tail would have been more varied and interesting, and been a better advert for the current health of the progressive scene. 

You may want to take a look at whatever voting system you use for future polls, as well as giving it a bit more publicity.

And if the &quot;Classic Prog&quot; results have no Curved Air or Renaissance, there will be trouble....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank for responding, Stacy. This has certainly has produced a lot of passionate debate (You should see some of the conversations on Twitter that led to me writing this piece!).</p>
<p>When you&#8217;re just starting out, even negative publicity is good publicity, especially when it points out where you can improve.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know precisely what voting system you used, but it does look as though the favourites of the biggest subset of your voters crowded everything else off the list.  It all depends on what you want to achieve, but a more &#8220;proportional&#8221; system might have produced a more diverse list. You&#8217;d still have had the same popular acts at the top, but the tail would have been more varied and interesting, and been a better advert for the current health of the progressive scene. </p>
<p>You may want to take a look at whatever voting system you use for future polls, as well as giving it a bit more publicity.</p>
<p>And if the &#8220;Classic Prog&#8221; results have no Curved Air or Renaissance, there will be trouble&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Stacy Doller</title>
		<link>http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/music/music-opinion/progzilla-and-their-problematic-list/comment-page-1/#comment-70043</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stacy Doller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2015 13:02:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/?p=12787#comment-70043</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m a little late to this conversation but as a co-founder of Progzilla Radio, I am delighted that people feel passionate enough about our project to comment both in a positive and negative way. Prog Rock has been a part of my life for 30 years now, and if there is one thing I have learned, it&#039;s that fans are as passionate as they are opinionated about our genre. 

Progzilla Radio has been broadcasting for 3 months now, and we are lucky to include some of the most vibrant and interesting broadcasters and performers amongst our ranks. The fact that people voted at all in this poll, is a testament to our listeners, and the passion of the community at large. 

I personally agree with Mr Hall that there should have been more female fronted artists in the Top 100 but that wasnt how people voted. I think when you look at the Top 10, it&#039;s actually quite accurate. Transatlantic are an international supergroup combining the fan bases of four other established groups, and it&#039;s easy to forget the impact Frost* had upon their debut. Marillion are the biggest cult band of the modern era, and Big Big Train are the heroes of the moment. 

I look forward to the next poll we conduct featuring the pre 1990 classic era of Progressive Rock and that &#039;difficult&#039; decade, the 1980s. Keep up the good work everyone]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a little late to this conversation but as a co-founder of Progzilla Radio, I am delighted that people feel passionate enough about our project to comment both in a positive and negative way. Prog Rock has been a part of my life for 30 years now, and if there is one thing I have learned, it&#8217;s that fans are as passionate as they are opinionated about our genre. </p>
<p>Progzilla Radio has been broadcasting for 3 months now, and we are lucky to include some of the most vibrant and interesting broadcasters and performers amongst our ranks. The fact that people voted at all in this poll, is a testament to our listeners, and the passion of the community at large. </p>
<p>I personally agree with Mr Hall that there should have been more female fronted artists in the Top 100 but that wasnt how people voted. I think when you look at the Top 10, it&#8217;s actually quite accurate. Transatlantic are an international supergroup combining the fan bases of four other established groups, and it&#8217;s easy to forget the impact Frost* had upon their debut. Marillion are the biggest cult band of the modern era, and Big Big Train are the heroes of the moment. </p>
<p>I look forward to the next poll we conduct featuring the pre 1990 classic era of Progressive Rock and that &#8216;difficult&#8217; decade, the 1980s. Keep up the good work everyone</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Hall</title>
		<link>http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/music/music-opinion/progzilla-and-their-problematic-list/comment-page-1/#comment-70021</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Hall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2015 13:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/?p=12787#comment-70021</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[First, the idea that you have to have voted in an obscure poll to be part of any conversation about the results is just silly. Especially when you only got to hear about it when the results were announced. Perhaps they should have publicised it a little more widely?

Second, if you really think the photos used to accompany concert reviews on this site are &quot;sexist&quot;, then you need to Google  the term &quot;slut-shaming&quot;.  Then consider the fact that I know many of the artists personally. All the photos used in reviews are taken and published with permission either of the artists themselves or from their management or promoters. If you really have a problem with anyone&#039;s stage outfits I suggest you take it up with them.

Judging from the defensive reactions in these comments, I think this blog post has struck a raw nerve with a few people.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, the idea that you have to have voted in an obscure poll to be part of any conversation about the results is just silly. Especially when you only got to hear about it when the results were announced. Perhaps they should have publicised it a little more widely?</p>
<p>Second, if you really think the photos used to accompany concert reviews on this site are &#8220;sexist&#8221;, then you need to Google  the term &#8220;slut-shaming&#8221;.  Then consider the fact that I know many of the artists personally. All the photos used in reviews are taken and published with permission either of the artists themselves or from their management or promoters. If you really have a problem with anyone&#8217;s stage outfits I suggest you take it up with them.</p>
<p>Judging from the defensive reactions in these comments, I think this blog post has struck a raw nerve with a few people.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ian Oakley</title>
		<link>http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/music/music-opinion/progzilla-and-their-problematic-list/comment-page-1/#comment-70016</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ian Oakley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2015 08:54:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/?p=12787#comment-70016</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Two points:
1. Did you actually vote Tim? 
2. From looking around your site and especially the photos you have used if there is any charge of &#039;sexism&#039; to be raised - well as the saying goes &#039;people in glass houses...&#039; :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two points:<br />
1. Did you actually vote Tim?<br />
2. From looking around your site and especially the photos you have used if there is any charge of &#8216;sexism&#8217; to be raised &#8211; well as the saying goes &#8216;people in glass houses&#8230;&#8217; <img src='http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Tim Hall</title>
		<link>http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/music/music-opinion/progzilla-and-their-problematic-list/comment-page-1/#comment-69988</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Hall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2015 15:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kalyr.co.uk/weblog/?p=12787#comment-69988</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s a lot of great music on the list, but there are also many great bands conspicuous by their absence.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a lot of great music on the list, but there are also many great bands conspicuous by their absence.</p>
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