So Dave Mustaine of Megadeth has gone off the deep end yet again, and claims the terrible recent massacres in Aurora and Milwakee weren’t the work of deranged nutters or domestic terrorists, but false-flag operations by the Obama adminstration to justify taking away everybody’s guns. And he’s already on record as being a “Birther”, spouting the brain-dead racist conspiracy theory that Barack Obama is not a natural-born American and his presidency is therefore not legitimate.
Which doesn’t leave me feeling like listening to any Megadeth records any time soon.
Which in turn begs the question: How unsavoury does someone’s political views or personal behaviour have to be before their music becomes unplayable? Ted Nugent is an obvious example; I’ve never been a particular fan of his music anyway, but the fact that he’s a nastily racist, homophobic bell-end doesn’t exactly help his cause. Likewise many, many people refuse to listen to Chris Brown because of his violence against women. Again, that’s far easier to do since his actual music is by all accounts pretty terrible. And let’s not even start on Gary Glitter.
How much can you separate the art from the artist? Are there people you can’t listen to because their opinions or behaviour are well beyond the pale? Or is there music you can enjoy despite of the artist?
And you didn’t mention Wagner.
I think there is an argument for separating a person from their art. It is possible to like a political song without believing in the views it expresses. But I watched an old TOTP on BBC4 – and when a certain person you named appeared, I hit the mute button as quick as I could.
The real test (and I hope this never happens) would be if someone I really liked did something awful.
So I’ve really always tried to keep people’s views from my enjoyment of their music. With the material in his lyrics it’s suprising to see Mustaine act like this. I’ll continue to listen because the band is more than Mustaine and the music doesn’t reflect his increasing senility. When the music reflects the stupidity – that’s when I stop listening.
Hmmm. This is one of those sticky areas that will always separate people. Personally, as much as what Gary Glitter has done in his personal life defies words to describe the depth of my disgust, his music will always be a part of my childhood memories. Although never formally charged, Michael Jackson had some pretty hefty charges levelled his way which were never proven one way or the other as the cases never came to court. However, his music is still revered (quite rightly) as genius (well that period in the 80′s anyway). I don’t care about Mustaine or Nugent’s politics. They make good music and that’s enough for me. But if you choose to remove them from your life due to questionable political or life choices, I can understand that too. Feel free to send me your Nugent CD’s in the meantime… I’m missing a few. ;o)
I’m everyone will draw the line somewhere. I wouldn’t, for instance, touch neo-Nazi metal bands.
Always notable how so many people will demonise Gary Glitter yet give Michael Jackson a free pass.
And no, I don’t have any Nugent records.
I saw Mustaine on a CBC interview show and he really seems extremely ignorant/brainwashed. It was kind of awe-inspiring.
I can’t off the top of my head think of a band/artist that I like or did like who has gone on record as promoting something I think is evil or really stupid. It did happen to me with Orson Scott Card the SF writer (I liked some of his work but not all of it, but once I became aware of his homophobic rants I stayed away from his more recent things), but even there it wasn’t something where it actually felt like I’d be missing something by not reading his books.
I was going to say ‘nasty people will produce nasty music’, then realised that, much as Michael Jackson is not my cup of tea, I can recognise that much of his music provides some of the best examples of that genre. But somehow I think the point stands, because the people who hold really objectionable views tend to produce music that does nothing for me either.
Which takes me back to Jackson … if I liked that music, would I buy it, knowing that, while a court of law may not have passed judgement, I don’t need to demand the same burden of proof. The difference is, perhaps, that I probably wouldn’t describe Jackson as ‘nasty’, so much as ‘sick’. One can believe that any crimes that may have been commited were the products of psychological imbalance, rather than someone who was malicious, and he certainly was not obviously prejudiced or intolerant in the way the other examples you give are. Frankly I’d be more likely to avoid contributing money to the extended Jackson family now he is dead.
There’s also somewhat of a free pass for people who lived in an earlier age. The list of antisemitic artists from the 19th and 20th centuries is so long you might argue that it would be easier to list the artists who weren’t antisemitic. Likewise, nobody would demand an artist from the 1870s to hold views on equality for homosexuals and women which are simply anachronistic for the time. Even the most reasonable, moderate, tolerant people may have held views that today would rightly be considered objectionable. Wagner’s antisemitism and views on German nationalism were a symptom of the age, and while he wrote some extremely objectionable stuff (outside music), he at least did not seem to have openly proselytised for his views within the music itself. He’s also not responsible for the purposes to which his music was put by far worse people after his death.
Which means, I suppose, that I wonder if its a decision that happens often in practice. If someone is so objectionable that you don’t want to buy their music, the chances are you have no desire to buy their music. With people from a past age, the same applies to an extent, with the exception that I suspect people automatically give increased leeway to allow for the standards of the age.
There is a line, I suppose where we draw it depends upon the individual. I didn’t realise Dave Mustaine was so objectionable, but I don’t listen to Megadeth anyway, so it’s not a problem to avoid him. I have issues with John Martyn and his treatment of his ex-wife, but in his music he doesn’t display this side of his character.
I am very careful with neo-folk bands as some have repellent views, but it’s difficult to know who is bad and who just happens to sound similar to bands, or was once in a band with a politically unsound person. It’s a good question though.
The matter of conviction is significant regarding Jackson and Glitter. On subject, the same thing happens with actors. I don’t care about Tom Cruise, in one way I think he gets a raw deal for a religious belief. I’m not religious so have no dog in that fight. Mel Gibson us tightly bring ostracized by most and he won’t be missed by most people. There is a line in society – mostly when the person no longer is an economic draw. On an individual basis everyone has their different line that needs to be crossed. At some point a person gets ostracized and that usually comes with a conviction. See OJ Simpson.
We have this debate in the book world all the time. Will you stop reading an author (or at least buying his books) because you find out he’s a terrible person? In my case, yeah (though I personally set a statute of limitations that ends when an author dies, because I am not going to inventory the politics of every early 20th century-and-before author). So for example, I am not interested in reading anything by Orson Scott Card or John C. Wright.
OTOH, I am not into music enough to pay attention to musicians’ private lives and politics, though when they do come to my attention (like Michael Jackson or Ted Nugent), yes, I will refrain from buying any of their music. (Not that I’m likely to listen to Michael Jackson or Ted Nugent anyway.)
I tend to follow Amadan’s example: if the person is still alive, there’s more of a sense that their big mouth is a far more shameful thing. I can read Céline without feeling too uncomfortable about his wartime anti-Semitism because he’s been dead for almost fifty years, but I can’t bring myself to ready Michel Houellebecq. It’s also not a matter of an author being magically liberated from those restrictions once they drop dead (which I know sounds like I’m hoping they do that, which is not at all what I mean).
Each one has to be their own case, with a few general guidelines. E.g., I’m less comfortable about buying Merzbow albums now that I know Masami Akita is a supporter of PETA, a group whose goals may be laudable but whose tactics I find deeply questionable. I like the man’s music (er, noise), but not all aspects of his politics, so I’m not sure if there is an elegant solution to such a dilemma. (Obviously, stealing his music is not a workable solution.)
I know if someone I read or listened to mouthed off like that, I’d cross them off my wish lists.
Yes, an age-old question.
I went off the idea of buying any more Jean Michele Jarre CDs when he divorced his wife for what seemed to me to be no particularly good reason.
I have never wanted to buy any of Michael Jackson’s music, so that which he might or might not have done is not relevant. I suspect that if he did anything questionable then it was probably more down to stupidity than anything else.
I have bought a lot of Loony Lab games, especially from their Fluxx series. I have met Andrew Looney and I think he is a nice guy, but I totally disagree with his position on cannabis. I will not buy Stoner Fluxx. This does not mean I will not buy his other games.
Sir Terry Pratchett is an atheist. I believe in God. I disagree totally with the theology advanced in his book “Small Gods”, but his observations about how people can behave in a fashion I (and I hope other readers of this blog) would describe as “evil” when they think it is “good” as defined by their religion have validity. It is alas true that over the centuries people have done very nasty things in the name of my religion and even my denomination within that. I wish these things had not been done, but we have free will and the fact that people get things badly wrong from time to time does not disprove the existence of God. I buy and enjoy the Discworld books.